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Hi all... I'm a pro-lifer who is addicted to making icons. Here are… - Livejournal's Center for Abortion Related Icons
May 5th, 2004
09:25 pm
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From:bjsurvivor
Date:February 2nd, 2007 05:56 am (UTC)

Re: another cent

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If everyone who had an abortion was just a "dumb kid", a teenager terrified of an unplanned pregnancy, that would be much less sad than the idea that a woman who's well educated and theoretically intellegent would honestly want to destroy a person instead of letting someone else raise it, in order to save them convienience.
I'm not an idiot just because I do not agree with you. For one, I certainly don't "try to kill women like you" who feel they have the right to control their own bodies. Murder is murder is murder, so, that's just stupid. Also, it solves nothing.


Again, the personhood of a zef is not only questionable but irrelevant. A woman is indisputably a person (except, perhaps, to the pope and other devout Catholics and Christian fundamentalists) and, therefore, has every right to evict an unwanted intruder, whether person or not, from her body.

It is not only sad but utterly unconscionable to me and to many, many others that you and your ilk care not a whit for the suffering of actual, born children and adults, who, unlike zefs, possess fully developed nervous systems and are, thus, capable of experiencing the condition of suffering. Scientifically, zefs, because they do not possess developed nervous systems, are incapable of suffering. Our belief is that it is the height of irresponsibility to birth a child that is unwanted, unloved, or that one does not have the resources to properly care for and cherish. One abused or neglected or starved child is worth more than all of the billions of (spontaneously and induced) abortions that have ever occurred (40-60% of zygotes fail to implant - God, the ultimate abortionist!). Actual children and actual (born) people suffer all the time.

I, too, am not an idiot simply because I do not agree with you. Unlike you and your ilk, I am not trying to legally shove my beliefs down your throats and attempting to force to you have abortions you do not want, while you and your ilk are actively trying to force us to gestate pregnancies that we do not want or that we desperately do want but that we cannot properly care for or which are detrimenting our health or our very lives.

I was not always pro-choice (though I was never a proponent of forced gestation). It has never made sense to me to force unwilling people to birth unwanted children, nor to force them to birth wanted children that they are incapable of properly caring for. I used to honestly think that people who had abused their children should be forcibly sterilized and those who were pregnant with potential children that they were incapable of properly caring for should be forced to abort (including sterilizing men who mindlessly sired children). I have long since grown up, become far less egocentric than I was as a child, and have since realized that such actions would be egregious violations of human rights and individual moral agency, as much so as forced gestation would be.

Legally, abortion is not murder. Also, legally there are many degrees of murder - 1st degree, 2nd degree, manslaughter, negligent homicide, etc. There are also many degrees of justifiable homicide - self defense, accidental, in defense of someone else, etc. Then, of course, there is the death penalty and war, both of which are A-OK with the vast majority of anti-abortionists. "Prolifers" claim to base their argument on the "fundamental right to life of each and every human being," so to expect that they would be anti-war and anti-death penalty is not in the least unreasonable. [Notice that I am not expecting them to be vegans, opponents of antibiotics, or environmentalists] Even defining "pro-life" as only pertaining to zygotic/embryonic/fetal life would necessitate a strong stance against war for the sake of consistency. After all, modern warfare deliberately targets civilians in an effort to coerce enemy governments to accede. Bombs do not magically spare pregnant women, which clearly means that the unborn are deliberately annihilated along with the apparently inconsequential (to proponents of forced gestation) born people.
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From:pineapple1012
Date:February 4th, 2007 04:52 pm (UTC)

Re: another cent

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I'm amused you think that anyone with any sort of religious conviction doesn't believe a woman is a person. I'm not particularly religious, but some of the best people I know are. Try not to stereotype, you make yourself sound pretty silly, and I'm sure you're smarter than that.
I'm even MORE amused that you think you know my "ilk". . .what "ilk" is that? Females? Females under thirty? People with higher education? Humanities majors? (you didn't know any of these things about me until I just told you them.) I assume what you ACTUALLY mean are people who are opposed to abortion. That's a pretty darn broad spectrum, including men, women, religious, atheists, republicans, democrats, feminists, social conservatives, homosexuals, clergy, and intellectuals. I bet you if you made a ven diagram of people who are opposed to abortion and people who "give a whit for the suffering of actual, born children and adults" you'd find a good bit of overlap (also, if you included people who believe women are people.) I'm not gonna justify my social outlook to you, because I don't have to, but rest assured, I give a damn about the people who are already born.
Secondly, the death penalty and war are, in fact, HUGELY NOT acceptable to "Pro-lifers." Most pro-life organizations are across the board against anything like the death penalty, euthanasia, the targeting of innocent civilians, etc. Check your facts, thank you. I think you're thinking of far right republicans. Or just George Bush.
FYI George Bush is not the pro-life movement, nor is he a beacon of awesomeness for people who don't like abortion. Again, don't use such broad brushstrokes. I don't think everyone who is pro-choice goes out and impregnates hookers on the weekends in order to force them into clinics on mondays. geeeeze.
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