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Hi all... I'm a pro-lifer who is addicted to making icons. Here are… - Livejournal's Center for Abortion Related Icons
May 5th, 2004
09:25 pm
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From:pineapple1012
Date:December 3rd, 2004 05:38 pm (UTC)

Re: Just my twp cents

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I am pro-life, and your argument both makes me very sad, but at the same time, it just makes clearer the huge problems with "pro-choice" ideaologies. . .
For one thing, the only semi-valid statement you made was that back-alley, illegal abortions cause a lot of damage to the girls who have them. I KNOW these things happened, and I know how terrible that is. I think it is incredibly sad that young girls would have their lives cut short because of a botched up, illegal, dirty, unsafe procedure. I don't wish that on anyone. However, that isn't a valid reason to legalize abortions. For one, even legal "safe" abortions can have terrible affects on the women. They are incredibly unhealthy, and can lead to future miscarriages, cancers, internal bleeding, infections, and death. Plus, it is more often than not emotionally scarring and damaging to the girls. I often make this analogy. . . Many heroin addicts die from using infected needles, unsafe heroin mixed with other drugs, and from improper use of the drug. Does that mean we should make heroin legal so that junkies can shoot up safely with clean needles and pure heroin?? I don't think so.
Your other reasoning is just ridiculous. . . Since you can't get your tubes tied you should be able to have an abortion?? Have you ever heard of birth control pills, or a condom? Or, if those would fail,adoption??? Or, since you really don't seem mature enough to take responsiblity for your actions, maybe you should not be having sex at all until you are able to be sterilized. I don't particularly want children either, and I am nineteen, the same as you, but I don't feel that if I am stupid enough to screw up and get myself pregnant, my innocent unborn child should have to die to make my life simpler.
And those books and examples you give ignore the fact that those women CHOSE to go see an abortionist. Noone forced them. They also,as sad as it is, have to take responsibility for their actions.
From:glowing_walrus
Date:December 30th, 2004 08:53 pm (UTC)

Re: Just my twp cents

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ur heroin argument is not good because we should legalize all drugs. i do not do drugs, but if legalize we can eliminate the national debt, some crime, and drugs will be safer ever if anyone who does them is stupid. legalizing drugs wont cause anymore people to do them. im not going to buy heroin if its legal. also, we need to stop arresting people who smoke pot because alcohol and cigarettes are worse for ur health.
From:stardustic
Date:December 31st, 2004 02:26 pm (UTC)

Re: Just my twp cents

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you make a very good point...
From:kattheripper
Date:February 3rd, 2005 06:32 pm (UTC)

Re: Just my twp cents

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The vast majority of abortions performed in America are first trimester and the average rate of complications is 3% according to the CDC. In fact, a first trimester abortion is 2 times more safe than a shot of penecilin. As for second and third trimester, in my homestate, Virginia, under state law termination of pregancies must be performed in a hospital because after the first trimester, the risk of complications increases significantly. If this minority of procedures is what you are referencing when you are saying "For one, even legal "safe" abortions can have terrible affects on the women. They are incredibly unhealthy, and can lead to future miscarriages, cancers, internal bleeding, infections, and death..." then you need to relize that you're either speaking of severly complicated and rare instances or you're referencing cases in foreign countires, such as India, where abortion is still a great stigma and medical facilities are not aquipped as they are in the states.
The truth is that in the United States, under safe and legal circumstances, abortion is many times safer and less prone to complications than child birth.
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From:rockyterrain
Date:April 27th, 2005 12:05 am (UTC)

Re: Just my twp cents

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what? are you serious? i realize im 91821 months behind the conversation but i stumbled on this community and ive got to comment. how are you people making all of these blanket statements? i havent seen one fact that youve been able to back up with sources... these arent arguments or debates -- you people are just spouting opinions or reguritating someone else's.

look, im a fourth year college student studying biotech and i realize this doesnt make me an expert but... 3%! are you fucking kidding me? nothing SAFE ever operates with a 3% uncertainty error. thats absurd. thats 3 out of 100 women having a complication.

and this is secondary but... you have so many spelling errors in your post! you misspelled "realize" and "equipped" -- how can i respect what you wrote? you kids sound like high school students. go out and get some life experience before you start making such strong statements and taking these extremist positions... all of you!
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From:violetmaiden
Date:May 29th, 2005 11:46 am (UTC)

Re: Just my twp cents

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I am way behind on this issue too, as I just stumbled across it, and I totally agree with you! 3% isn't a reasurring number!

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From:roseofjuly
Date:March 2nd, 2007 12:14 am (UTC)

Re: Just my twp cents

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O RLY? I'm actually actively involved in research. Most research functions with a 5% error margin (confidence level). Actually, in most cases it doesn't get much better than 3%.

Even if that were the case, we better outlaw pregnancy then. An estimated 40% of women experience complications related to pregnancy and childbirth, and 15% experience life-threatening complications.

you kids sound like high school students. go out and get some life experience before you start making such strong statements and taking these extremist positions... all of you!

All hail the almighty college student...because you've had so many more life experiences than 'high school kids.'
From:(Anonymous)
Date:August 23rd, 2006 08:06 pm (UTC)

Re: Just my twp cents

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As a matter of fact, the government does have a program where heroin addicts can get clean needles from free clinics. All they have to do is come and ask for them.

I had an abortion a few months ago and I know that I did the right thing. I had taken drugs and pills that caused birth defects in the fetus. I had to ask myself if I was ready to care for a severely handicapped child, and whether it was a good life for that child to live. I am glad that the option of abortion was available to me. I think about my child everyday and I pray for that child, but if faced with situation again, I would do it again.


Also, your "facts" about abortion are wrong. You should check things out before you start giving out information. Abortions do not affect furure conception. It does not cause death. As a matter of fact, more women die from complications of giving birth than from complications from abortion. And as for mental and emotional strain, sure, it happens. But it's also an incredible sense of relief when you know that you have a choice. There are just situations that pregnant women can be in that are not ideal for children. Check your facts and stop misinforming people.
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From:pineapple1012
Date:August 23rd, 2006 09:13 pm (UTC)

Re: Just my twp cents

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First of all, I'm sorry for your situation. It's terrible that you had to make that choice, and I'm sorry that you were taking drugs (by necessity or by choice) that harmed your baby. You illustrate an example which is very difficult to argue away. What happens if there is a severley handicapped child that the mother can't afford to care for? It's difficult to say. Maybe there could have been other solutions, maybe you really felt there was no other choice. I don't know you, so I can't really judge that. And I am in no way passing judgement on you, but I feel that, at the end of the day, one can never say that your abortion or ANY abortion, was an intrinsically "good" thing.

However, I am concerned that too many young women are as relieved as you are that abortion is an option. Abortion is far too easily accessable, and many women use it as a back up to birth control. If abortion is to stay legal, it should, at the very least, be more difficult to obtain. There is simply NO excuse to get rid of a healthy child because it's inconvienient. Give it up for adoption. There are many people dying to have a child who can't have one of their own.

Finally, my facts are NOT, in point of fact, "wrong." You can fairly say that some of them are contested and I in no way meant to indicate that every single legal "safe" abortion leads to death. But, I have done a fair amount of research on this, and these things do happen often enough. The difficulty is that for every study I can produce showing that abortion is harmful for women or that an unborn child is biologically alive, you can probably produce one that says otherwise. The issue has become far too politicized for it ever to be resolved intellegently, which is sad. Instead of religious and political ramblings, it should be discussed from a strictly scientific and legal point of view. But I digress.

When you say "situations that aren't ideal for children" do you mean living conditions? lifestyle choices?? I understand if a woman is very poor she may not want to raise her child, but often she will be able to find a group home or a center that will take care of her until she has the child and put the baby up for adoption for her. Surely adoption by a loving family is ideal for a child? If you mean a situation where a woman is living a party lifestyle and a child would inconvinience that, I think it's very sad that a life would be ended so she can continue doing her own thing. Again, I think no woman should have to be a mother if she doesn't want to be, but once you're pregnant, you're already a mother. Give the baby up for adoption. Before you have sex, make sure the guy is wearing a condom or you have taken a pill or are wearing a diaphragm or go get your tubes tied if you are old enough and can afford it and are certain you never want children.

I guess I just become frustrated by people who insist that abortion is a good thing in and of itself. Even if you feel, ideologically, that it can't be made illegal, you can't really argue its a boon. It's annoying that women think if they can't have abortions they have to have babies. I'm a feminist, and I don't want kids and I have sex, but I think I have enough options to prevent pregnancy that I will never have to have an abortion.
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From:pineapple1012
Date:August 23rd, 2006 09:22 pm (UTC)

Re: Just my twp cents

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Oh, and if you would like some information with sources to back it up, I can sent you the article I wrote a few months ago about the subject.
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From:nothingmuch
Date:January 30th, 2007 01:34 pm (UTC)

Just my two cents

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Abortion is far too easily accessable, and many women use it as a back up to birth control. If abortion is to stay legal, it should, at the very least, be more difficult to obtain.

Most states have waiting periods, informed consent, mandatory ultrasounds, parental involvement for minors, etc. Not to mention the fact that it's several hundred dollars for a first trimester abortion, and medicaid usually doesn't cover it. It's ALREADY extremely difficult to get an abortion.

There is simply NO excuse to get rid of a healthy child because it's inconvienient. Give it up for adoption. There are many people dying to have a child who can't have one of their own.

I don't care.

There are over a hundred thousand children in foster care waiting to be adopted RIGHT NOW. People who "wait" do so only because they want a perfect white infant, not a two or three year old child with a history of neglect.

They don't care about the poor children waiting for families in the foster care system, so why should pregnant women give a damn about them? Why should I suffer through an unwanted pregnancy and put MY health at risk, just so they can have MY perfect white baby? They can take the children that are already available.

I would NEVER give a baby up for adoption. NEVER. Any baby that comes out of my body is MY FAMILY, and I don't give away family. NO ONE could ever love my baby more than ME. NO ONE could ever protect my baby better than ME.

If I was pregnant and I couldn't keep my baby, I would have an abortion -- even an illegal abortion -- before I would EVER think of giving my baby away.

An abortion just kills a fetus so it won't become a baby. An aborted fetus never has to suffer. It's much kinder than having a baby and ripping it away from its mother.

The issue has become far too politicized for it ever to be resolved intellegently, which is sad. Instead of religious and political ramblings, it should be discussed from a strictly scientific and legal point of view.

Go ahead and discuss it from whatever point of view you want, but your discussions will never change the opinions of individual women, who make their own decisions about their own pregnancies regardless of the law.

I don't care how many times you say that a fetus is a baby. I have been through pregnancy and I have been through birth, and a fetus is not a baby until it's born. Nothing you say or show me will ever convince me otherwise (I've heard and seen it all), and no law will ever change my mind. I will always believe that abortion is better than adoption.

You can either respect women's sincerely-held beliefs about their own bodies and their own pregnancies, or you can do the "pro-life" thing and try to kill women like me by making it illegal for doctors to help us abort. But you'll never eliminate all abortion. If I can't go to a doctor, I'll do it myself. I'd rather die than give away my flesh and blood child to some stranger.
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From:nothingmuch
Date:January 30th, 2007 01:49 pm (UTC)

another cent

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P.S. You might not know this, as the pro-life movement likes to make it sound like most women who abort are ignorant teenagers who've never been pregnant before, but actually, more than 60% of women who abort have already had at least one baby. So you see, there are LOTS of women like me, who have been through pregnancy already and sincerely feel, from the depths of our souls, that abortion is the best option for an unwanted pregnancy. We are not just dumb kids, and we are not going away any time soon.
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From:kingyummy
Date:September 2nd, 2006 11:25 pm (UTC)

Re: Just my twp cents

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Just out of interest, why do you regard having a child you did not plan, do not want, and will probably not be able to support as "taking responsibility"?
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From:deadly_angst
Date:January 30th, 2007 11:38 pm (UTC)

Re: Just my twp cents

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funny how noone dares to reply to a sensitive argument
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